Legislature(1995 - 1996)
04/26/1995 08:36 AM House HES
| Audio | Topic |
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES
STANDING COMMITTEE
April 26, 1995
8:36 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Con Bunde, Co-Chair
Representative Cynthia Toohey, Co-Chair
Representative Gary Davis
Representative Norman Rokeberg
Representative Caren Robinson
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Tom Brice
Representative Al Vezey
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT
Representative Carl Moses
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HB 246: "An Act directing the commissioner of administration to
seek a buyer for the Alaska Pioneers' Home and
eliminating the Alaska Pioneers' Home program if the
Alaska Pioneers' Home is sold; directing the commissioner
of administration to contract for all or part of the
operation of the Alaska Pioneers' Home if a suitable
buyer is not found; relating to the closure of the Alaska
Pioneers' Home; and providing for an effective date."
HEARD AND HELD
HB 94: "An Act relating to the management of public schools by
a private agency."
SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD
WITNESS REGISTER
RUPE ANDREWS, Legislative Coordinator
American Association of Retired Persons, Alaska Branch
9416 Long Run Drive
Juneau, AK 99801
Telephone: (907) 789-7422
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 246.
GLADYS KLOSE
822 Jackson Street
Ketchikan, AK 99901
Telephone: (907) 225-4770
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 246.
ED LYNCH
250 Fireweed
Palmer, AK 99645
Telephone: (907) 746-0320
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 246.
VIRGINIA and FOSTER WALTERS, Members
American Association of Retired Persons
214 Birch Street
Kenai, AK 99611
Telephone: (907) 283-7305
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 246.
SYLVIA JOHNSON, Member
American Association of Retired Persons
P.O. Box 152
Kenai, AK 99611
Telephone: (907) 283-4751
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 246.
CHARLES QUARRE', Member
American Association of Retired Persons
HC1, Box 3336
Sterling, AK 99672
Telephone: (907) 262-2115
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 246.
DR. JEAN BONAR
Anchorage Pioneers' Home
923 West 11th
Anchorage, AK 99501
Telephone: (907) 276-3414
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 246.
BETTY THIELSEN, Resident
Anchorage Pioneers' Home
923 West 11th
Anchorage, AK 99501
Telephone: (907) 276-3414
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 246.
JOHN GIBBONS, President
Residents' Council
Anchorage Pioneers' Home
923 West 11th
Anchorage, AK 99501
Telephone: (907) 276-3414
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 246.
EMELY DuBEAU, Resident
Anchorage Pioneers' Home
923 West 11th
Anchorage, AK 99501
Telephone: (907) 276-3414
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 246.
GERALD BOHMS
P.O. Box 80155
Fairbanks, AK 99708
Telephone: (907) 479-6970
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 246.
LEE CARMAN, President
Fairbanks AARP
712 Bentley Drive
Fairbanks, AK 99701
Telephone: (907) 452-6296
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 246.
ART NIELSEN, Resident
Sitka Pioneers' Home
120 Katlian Street
Sitka, AK 99835
Telephone: (907) 747-3213
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 246.
ALTHEA BUCKINGHAM, President
Residents' Council
Sitka Pioneers' Home;
Community Coordinator, AARP
120 Katlian Street
Sitka, AK 99835
Telephone: (907) 747-3213
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 246.
ANNE JANZEN, Resident
Speaking for CAROL KLANEY
Sitka Pioneers' Home
120 Katlian Street
Sitka, AK 99835
Telephone: (907) 747-3213
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 246.
JULIA OLSEN, Resident
Sitka Pioneers' Home
120 Katlian Street
Sitka, AK 99835
Telephone: (907) 747-3213
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 246.
MARGARET NEWELL, Resident
Anchorage Pioneers' Home
923 West 11th
Anchorage, AK 99501
Telephone: (907) 276-3414
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 246.
MARCY BUTLER, Resident
Anchorage Pioneers' Home
923 West 11th
Anchorage, AK 99501
Telephone: (907) 276-3414
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 246.
INEZ WELLS, Resident
Anchorage Pioneers' Home
923 West 11th
Anchorage, AK 99501
Telephone: (907) 276-3414
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 246.
ROBERLY WALDRON, former Deputy Commissioner
Department of Administration
2200 Belmont Drive
Anchorage, AK 99517
Telephone: (907) 338-4213
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 246.
EUGENE SMITH
2009 Dimond Drive
Anchorage, AK 99507
Telephone: (907) 563-7335
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 246.
KATHY DIETRICH, Business Agent
Alaska State Employees Association
1951 Red Leaf Road
Fairbanks, AK 99709
Telephone: (907) 455-6064
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 246.
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 246
SHORT TITLE: OPERATION OF PIONEERS' HOME
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) G.DAVIS
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
03/09/95 677 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
03/09/95 677 (H) HES, STATE AFFAIRS, FINANCE
04/11/95 (H) HES AT 02:00 PM CAPITOL 106
04/18/95 (H) HES AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 106
04/18/95 (H) MINUTE(HES)
04/26/95 (H) HES AT 08:30 AM CAPITOL 106
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 95-42, SIDE A
Number 000
CO-CHAIR CON BUNDE called the meeting of the House Health,
Education and Social Services standing committee to order at 8:36
a.m. Present at the call to order were Representatives Toohey,
Bunde and Davis. A quorum was not present to conduct business.
Co-Chair Bunde read the calendar. He recognized the presence of
Representative Carl Moses, and invited him to sit at the committee
table.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE turned the gavel over to HESS Committee Vice-Chair
Gary Davis, who is also the primary sponsor and author of HB 246.
HB 246 - OPERATION OF PIONEERS' HOME
Number 090
REPRESENTATIVE GARY DAVIS noted this bill was being heard for the
second time. The intent of the hearing is to listen to all the
concerns and get some understanding of the current operations of
the Pioneers' Homes. HESS Committee members would like to get some
input as to the validity of the proposed HB 246. Representative
Davis has also requested that HB 246 and the entire issue be
studied intensely and discussed thoroughly by a task force over the
interim.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS wanted to make it clear that HB 246 and the
provisions within are not immediately imminent. Therefore, all
concerned parties can "sit back and relax." Representative Davis
assured current residents of the Pioneers' Homes that they can
relax at any stage of the process because it is not his intent to
disrupt any existing residents of the homes.
Number 215
RUPE ANDREWS, Legislative Coordinator, American Association of
Retired Persons (AARP), Alaska Branch, said the AARP has many
concerns with the bill. At present, the AARP is opposed to the
bill for two reasons. First, the bill is untimely because if it
passes in its present form, it will reverse 35 years of public
policy without adequate public debate or dialogue. Secondly, it is
causing a lot of concern, anguish and frustration among the
residents of the pioneers' homes.
MR. ANDREWS said those residents feel, rightly or wrongly, that
they have a contract with the state. Those residents are not sure
of their future, what is going to happen to them, and what is going
to happen to the pioneers' homes. As a matter of public policy,
the AARP feels the right approach is for the legislature to
establish a bipartisan task force to study the issues and the
options. The task force should study the problems and how to solve
them.
Number 296
MR. ANDREWS said pioneers' homes are unique to Alaska. Visitors
admire them, and go back to their own states and wonder why their
home states cannot do something like it. Those homes were set up
originally to do something about the old pioneers. The homes have
since progressed.
MR. ANDREWS said people in the homes live in dignity. They live in
a free, open atmosphere. Mr. Andrews invited HESS Committee
members to visit the Juneau Pioneers' Home to experience the
quality of the place. To reverse the pioneers' home policy without
adequate dialogue and public input is not the right way to go on
public policy.
MR. ANDREWS asked if the value of the pioneers' homes had been
appraised. According to HB 246, residents would have about five
years of care under the contract. But the price will probably be
so prohibitive that whoever purchases or even leases the pioneers'
homes will not be able to survive financially. Mr. Andrews asked
what would happen to the residents of the pioneers' homes then.
Number 390
MR. ANDREWS said the best approach to these issues, because they
deal with a long-term, public policy, is to establish a bipartisan
task force to study the issues, and then return with the
legislation if it is required.
Number 406
CO-CHAIR CYNTHIA TOOHEY asked if Mr. Andrews was present last year
when the pioneers' home task force was started by the
Governor.
MR. ANDREWS said he was not present.
CO-CHAIR TOOHEY said the task force was quite involved, and
testimony was taken from all across the state. Co-Chair Toohey
said last year, the same thing happened--residents panicked and
said, "You people are going to throw me out onto the street." She
noted Representative Davis has said it is nobody's intention to
throw anyone into the street.
CO-CHAIR TOOHEY warned Mr. Andrews that to say residents are going
to be thrown out into the street is to cause all kinds of fright.
This bill has nothing to do with throwing anybody into the street.
She asked Mr. Andrews to please stop that kind of rumor, and pass
the word along that no one is going into the street.
MR. ANDREWS said residents have contacted the AARP, and they are
very concerned. This bill is causing some anguish.
CO-CHAIR TOOHEY apologized for the anguish, and reiterated there is
no intention to put anyone out of the homes. She again asked Mr.
Andrews to reassure people whenever he hears such a rumor.
Number 500
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS announced that Representative Robinson and
Representative Rokeberg joined the meeting at 8:40 a.m. A quorum
was now present to conduct business.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said the problem he foresees is much like the
problem with the longevity bonus. There are the "haves," the "have
nots," and then the lawsuit. Currently, there are the "haves,"
those who get about a $50,000 subsidy from the state by being in a
pioneers' home. There are many people who cannot be in the
pioneers' homes. As the legislature investigates this issue and
looks for a solution, he would hope the AARP would help the
legislature come up with a solution that addresses that "have-have
not" issue. The financial realities must also be dealt with.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said the legislature has worked all session to cut
the budget, and yet he just heard the news that $100 million has
been lost this year. Co-Chair Bunde said Co-Chair Toohey has an
expression that he likes to use, "We are not the enemy, we are just
trying to do a job."
Number 588
MR. ANDREWS recalled that last session, the AARP worked with the
Administration on the bill which aimed to phase out the longevity
bonus. The AARP supported that bill right through to the end of
the session. Mr. Andrews asked to respond to the sponsor's
statement on HB 246. The first sentence reads, "The purpose of HB
246 is to direct the commissioner of administration to seek a
suitable buyer for the Alaska Pioneers' Homes."
MR. ANDREWS said when individuals, particularly residents of the
pioneers' homes, read the bill they immediately become upset. That
first statement says much to them. The commissioner is directed to
seek a buyer. The next question those residents have is, "What
happens to us?" That is a valid question.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE noted Co-Chair Toohey had said the current residents
are held harmless. However, Co-Chair Bunde does not agree because
some residents would remain at the subsidized rate, and new
residents will have to pay their own way. This would never
withstand a court challenge. Co-Chair Bunde therefore does not
agree that current residents would be held harmless.
Number 659
GLADYS KLOSE testified via teleconference that she is very upset by
HB 246. She thinks the long-time residents of Alaska have worked
very hard to establish these homes, and the homes could not exist
under private ownership, because private owners have to make a
profit. A change from state management could force many seniors to
leave Alaska. She strongly opposed HB 246.
MS. KLOSE said the pioneers' home system works as it is, and should
not be taken away from the old-timers.
Number 773
ED LYNCH testified via teleconference that he has been a resident
of the Homer Pioneers' Home for eight years. He does not speak for
the other residents, but they have been telling him they are all
very concerned about the possibility of the homes being sold and
the consequences of that. The residents realized that when and if
the homes are sold, the charges to stay at the homes would
skyrocket. Very few residents could meet the new rates.
MR. LYNCH said the purchaser would have government programs to fall
back on for their revenue. The purchaser would look at that,
because they are nonprofit organizations. This bill could not have
come up at a worse time, when there is talk of discontinuing the
permanent fund and cutting the longevity program. This is very
traumatic to the residents of the homes.
MR. LYNCH noted that one resident told him, "These things hang over
our heads on a thread." The state must cut back on the funding of
some programs, because the cash flow is not what it was a few years
ago, and overspending has occurred in many areas. However, such a
drastic measure as selling the pioneers' homes to make up for the
shortfall is unthinkable. Mr. Lynch hopes HESS Committee members
would see to it that this bill never comes to a vote, and find
other ways to be good stewards of the state's money.
Number 857
MR. LYNCH has spent all his life in Alaska, and many he knows have
spent most of their lives in this state. He feels as if he is
being betrayed by the new breed of legislators.
Number 880
VIRGINIA WALTERS testified via teleconference that she is adamantly
opposed to HB 246. She still fears, despite the legislators'
assurances, that the homes will be closed. She read one of the
statements in the long title of the bill, which says, "...relating
to the closure of the Alaska Pioneers' Home; and providing for an
effective date." She thinks everyone needs to be aware that those
words are there. She asked that the bill not come to vote.
Number 921
FOSTER WALTERS testified via teleconference in opposition to HB 246
as it will make cost of staying in the homes prohibitive.
Number 937
SYLVIA JOHNSON testified via teleconference that she also opposes
HB 246. The bill is premature and not too well thought out.
Number 955
CHARLES QUARRE', District Director, AARP, testified via
teleconference. He stated if the homes are sold to a private
enterprise, the private enterprise obviously wants to make a
profit. He asked why the state cannot operate these homes on a
break-even basis.
MR. QUARRE' also stated that if a private property owner is going
to operate the pioneers' homes at the same level and is to make a
profit, the rents will have to be raised or the services will have
to be cut. If the rents are raised and the services cut, the
marginal people in these homes will be out on the street.
MR. QUARRE' continued that the legislature knows the seniors in
this state represent a large voting block. The AARP alone has over
44,000 members, or almost 8 percent of the total population of the
state. These seniors recognize there is a problem with the budget
and they want to help be part of the solution. However, the
seniors want to make sure the money goes to reduce the budget and
is not used for other circumstances if this money comes into the
state.
Number 1024
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS answered Mr. Quarre's question as to why the
state cannot run a break-even operation. That is the question many
people have. But the answer is quite obvious. Every facility has
a cost per day per resident. That cost would be prohibitive
currently for most residents. There are some things that can be
done in that regard, and one of those options is to become Medicaid
eligible. That would be the first step. There are a lot of
Medicaid eligible residents.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said, "That would draw from another pot of
money which is still tax dollars, it would be federal tax dollars,
but it would be even with all of those who are eligible for
Medicaid in other situations where the federal government pays 50
percent and the state pays 50 percent."
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS continued that there are many things being
done currently to improve the financial situations of the pioneers'
homes and the cost of operation. There will continue to be
efficiencies provided. HB 246 is of course drawing additional
attention to that situation, and looking at alternatives.
Number 1099
CO-CHAIR BUNDE commented that there is not, in his experience, any
state agency that can run cheaper or more efficiently than a
private agency. The legislature is currently attempting to reduce
state workers' compensation because private industry cannot
compete. When people have a chance to work for the state, they
leave private industry because the state pays more and has better
benefits.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE recalled the question about the cost per day per
resident. He also wanted to know what the state pays annually for
the pioneers' homes.
Number 1140
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said the total budget for the pioneers' homes
is over $30 million. There is about $5 million in revenues.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE concluded "it would be $25 million net,
approximately." He asked what that breaks down into residents per
day.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said he had not calculated that amount.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE wanted to assure Mr. Quarre' there is no way he
would support a reduction in the state expenditures of the
pioneers' homes only to have it transferred to another entity. The
legislature has worked all session to reduce state spending in
light of the budget deficit, only to find out that the latest
forecast is more than double of any reduction. The latest forecast
of the increase of the deficit is more than double of any decrease
the legislature could hope for. The legislature is fighting a
losing battle.
Number 1196
DR. JEAN BONAR had written a letter which was read to HESS
Committee members via teleconference. Dr. Bonar has practiced
medicine at the Anchorage Pioneers' Home for 20 years, and sees a
number of elderly patients. She wrote: "The Alaska population
that is over 65 is the fastest growing segment of the Alaska
population because many of these residents who moved here during
the forties, fifties and even sixties to build here in this great
state have reached retirement age.
DR. BONAR'S letter continued. "Many of this group do not have the
present income to afford care outside their home if they grow
infirm and incapable of living independently. In this economy,
their incomes are often inadequate, and if they have any
disabilities or infirmities and cannot live independently, they
must leave the state to find retirement homes where they can have
assistance.
"For example, there are two patients I would like to describe to
you. Carl was in his seventies and a construction builder from the
forties. He could not live independently because of a stroke, and
his wife had emphysema so she could not adequately care for him.
They ended up moving to a trailer park in Southern California,
where together their income could just barely pay. They did not
have adequate medical help. They were about $100 over what would
have qualified them for Medicaid.
"Another patient, whom I'll call Priscilla, has multiple sclerosis
and diabetes. She is in her sixties and retired as a clerk from
the federal government, had to sell her condo, furniture, carpet,
car, everything, because her civil service retirement was not
enough to afford the (indisc.) Program Home or Our Lady of
Compassion. And the pioneers' home list was long indeed, and she
needed (indisc. -coughing).
"She had lived here for 30 years, and all her friends were here.
She had to leave the state for Washington, where she lived for a
short time with an elderly sister, not receiving adequate care.
The quality of care cannot extend rapidly enough to take care of
the older population. The state is obliged to provide an
opportunity for these seniors to live out the rest of their lives
near their lifelong friends, and to live in a state that they
dedicated their lives to building. Thank you, Dr. Jean Bonar, 3260
Providence Drive, Suite 523."
Number 1410
BETTY THIELSEN testified via teleconference that one of her
employed senior friends, who has lived in Alaska for over 40 years,
said she will not be eligible to enter the pioneers' home because
of the present one-year residency clause for admission. Ms.
Thielsen would like for more pioneers' homes to be built for
persons wishing residential care as is enjoyed in Anchorage.
MS. THIELSEN said she does not want a business, like Providence
Hospital, to purchase the pioneers' homes. They would place
persons needing nursing care only.
Number 1448
MS. THIELSEN recalled that years ago, when she inquired about the
cost of living in Lady of Compassion, she was told it was $8,000
per month. At that time, some of the residents' care was
supplemented by the Veterans' Administration or the state of Alaska
Welfare Department. She called again on April 18, and the cost to
live at Our Lady of Compassion is $261 per day. Therefore, the
cost per month would be $7,830 excluding therapy.
Number 1483
JOHN GIBBONS, President, Residents' Council, Anchorage Pioneers'
Home, asked about the current status of HB 246 at this time.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS answered that the bill was being heard in the
House HESS Committee. There is no companion bill as of yet in the
Senate. It is intended that the bill stay in a House HESS
subcommittee during the interim.
MR. GIBBONS asked if the bill would move before the end of the
legislature.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said the bill would not move this year.
MR. GIBBONS asked if the bill was dead for this year.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS answered yes.
Number 1518
CO-CHAIR BUNDE clarified that "dead" means there is no work to be
done on the bill, and that is not the case. The bill will be
worked on in a subcommittee during the summer and fall.
Undoubtedly, the bill will be brought up again the next legislative
session, which is in the spring of 1996. There will be ongoing
work to reduce the impact of the bill on everyone as much as
possible, realizing that no bill can actually please everyone.
CO-CHAIR TOOHEY told Mr. Gibbons that testimony will be taken on
this bill, and work groups will be conducted in Anchorage so there
will be public input. She asked Mr. Gibbons to pass along the
assurance that this bill should not panic or worry anyone. This is
just a committee, and Representative Davis is trying to get people
to realize that a problem exists. Everyone can work together to
find solutions. No one is being thrown out onto the street.
MR. GIBBONS thanked her for the reassurance. He asked if HESS
Committee members had seen an article in the Sitka Sentinel written
by Pioneer R.N. DeArmond.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said the HESS Committee members had testimony
written by Mr. DeArmond.
MR. GIBBONS said Mr. DeArmond is a great pioneer, and one of the
greatest historians in the state. He suggested that a commission
be formed by various organizations. The commission should include
pioneers of Alaska, as well as residents of pioneers' homes,
members of the legislature and members of the Administration. This
commission should do a study to come up with a possible solution to
the troubles. This is not an overnight situation, and Mr. Gibbons
hopes this suggestion will be given full consideration during
subcommittee deliberations on HB 246.
Number 1650
MR. GIBBONS said he has watched the legislature since the spring of
1942. He made a general admonition to Representative Davis in
writing legislation. He said the first words of the bill would
"terrify God." He did not like the way the legislation was
written. However, he conceded that the pioneers' home problem is
not going away. In the city of Anchorage alone, there are over
20,000 seniors eligible for admittance into the pioneers' home.
This statistic alone should make HESS Committee members realize
that there is a large problem out there that needs to be solved.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said the state is now over $700 million "in the
hole." There are a lot of problems out there that need to be
solved. While he agrees with Co-Chair Toohey that no one is going
to be thrown into the street, it would be less than honest to
encourage people to think that more pioneers' homes can be built
when the state is facing a $700 million deficit.
Number 1739
REPRESENTATIVE NORMAN ROKEBERG let Mr. Gibbons know that he shares
the concerns of pioneers' homes residents. Representative Rokeberg
does not agree with Co-Chair Toohey's analysis. He assured those
in the Anchorage Pioneers' Home that he is sitting on the HESS
Committee trying to look after their interests.
Number 1751
EMELY DuBEAU testified via teleconference that she has been a
resident of the Anchorage Pioneers' Home for over 12 years. She
asked what the state will do with the money it receives from the
sale of the homes.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS assumed the money would roll into the general
fund, and help the state recoup some of the deficit spending.
MS. DuBEAU asked if that included raising the per diem of the
legislators every year and raising their own salaries.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said he could not speak for anyone else but
himself on that matter, but it would not be his intention to do
that.
Number 1779
CO-CHAIR BUNDE stated the salary of legislators has not been raised
in many years, and the per diem has been raised once that he is
aware of. He respectfully asked Ms. DuBeau to not treat the
legislators like they were the enemy. Legislators do not have a
$50,000 per year subsidy.
MS. DuBEAU asked what assurance will be given to the residents
regarding their future. All that has been mentioned in this bill
is the nursing and assisted living. She asked what would be done
concerning the residential occupants.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS answered the legislature provides the funding.
The organization and daily operation of the facilities is
determined by the departments and the Administration. At this
point, this is the only bill addressing the pioneers' homes from a
legislative standpoint. It is Representative Davis's intent for
the current residents to continue with the contract which states
they will be provided with the pioneers' home service.
Number 1871
GERALD BOHMS testified via teleconference that he has been a
resident of Fairbanks for about 47 years. He opposed HB 246, as he
felt it was an ill-advised piece of legislation. The legislators
always talk about the state's deficit, and it seems like this would
be a prudent time to reinstate the state income tax, or create an
additional tax to supplement the oil income. That would go a long
way toward solving the financial problems of the state. In
addition, it would give people a larger stake in what the
legislature is doing with their tax money.
Number 1921
MR. BOHMS said the income tax, when it was in place, did not cause
anyone a great hardship. Those in the lower income brackets would
be affected minimally if at all. A tax would allow the state to
support the programs that the state currently has, including the
pioneers' homes.
MR. BOHMS reiterated that the sale of the homes would be a real
detriment to the state. The old-timers and pioneers who have spent
their lives in Alaska deserve a brighter future than selling the
homes would bring. The costs would be raised, so people couldn't
afford to live there. In the past, the state has looked into
qualifying for Medicaid for the pioneers' homes. That in itself
would destroy the homes. Therefore, that is not an option either.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS appreciated the testimony of Mr. Bohms, which
contained concerns and possible solutions.
Number 2003
LEE CARMAN, President, Fairbanks AARP, said he has lived in Alaska
for many, many years. He cannot understand why the legislators
cannot create another state income tax. The tax would never be
large enough to hurt anyone, and it would help guarantee that the
shortages the state is currently experiencing will abate. He said
the people of Alaska would not have to pay too much, perhaps just
a little sales tax or an income tax.
MR. CARMAN cannot understand why there is no work on bringing money
into the general fund except what can be taken from the oil
companies. There are many people in Alaska that live out of the
Alaska general fund, and never pay a nickel. Mr. Carman draws
pension. He is over 80-years-old, and he would be willing to share
a part of his retirement to help correct the funding shortage of
the state.
Number 2098
MR. CARMAN asked how long it would be before the new buyer of the
pioneers' homes abandoned those homes. Mr. Carman does not think
it would take over a year, because the new buyer would not have the
expertise to take care of them. The new buyer would start cutting
corners, and consequently the homes would be gone. It was decided
by the courts that a person only needs one year of Alaska residency
to get into the pioneers' homes. If those new residents are
allowed to go into the homes, they would be a bigger burden on the
finances of the homes than those who are currently residents.
MR. CARMAN feared that in order to correct the shortfalls of the
system, the permanent fund and perhaps the longevity bonus will be
taken away from many people in Alaska.
Number 2155
CO-CHAIR BUNDE appreciated Mr. Carman's willingness to be part of
the solution. Co-Chair Bunde said he could only speak for himself,
but he has no fear of taxes. However, Co-Chair Bunde is a
representative. When the majority of people in the state feel they
want to pay taxes to support the pioneers' homes or any other
program, then Alaska residents will pay taxes. However, taxes will
not be paid until the majority of people want to pay them.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE stated if taxes were paid at the previous rate, it
would generate about $250 million. That would still leave the
state with a $500 million deficit. There would still be no extra
money to go into the pioneers' homes or anything else. Taxes at
the previous level are not the only solution. It may be one of the
solutions, but Co-Chair Bunde personally feels the solution will be
made of taxes, the permanent fund and a cut of state services.
Number 2197
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS recalled Mr. Carman's question about private
contractors, the future of the homes, and how long the contractors
will be preset before the homes are used for something else. Those
concerns need to be addressed in the legislation, as well as any
contractual arrangements that may be acceptable to the legislature
and to the state. Representative Davis thanked Mr. Carman for
bringing up that point.
Number 2218
ART NIELSEN testified via teleconference that he has been a
resident of the Sitka Pioneers' Home for over one year. He asked
why his corporation could not buy the homes if a suitable buyer
could not be found.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said that could be a possibility. Any
proposals would have to be acceptable to the state.
MR. NIELSEN stated that he belongs to two corporations, so any one
would be suitable.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS asked Mr. Nielsen how long he was on the
waiting list to get into the home.
MR. NIELSEN said he got admitted under a doctor's care, so he did
not have to wait very long.
Number 2263
ALTHEA BUCKINGHAM, President, Residents' Council, Sitka Pioneers'
Home; and Community Coordinator, AARP; testified via teleconference
that she is speaking on behalf of both those organizations. She is
encouraged that HESS Committee members have the written testimony
of Mr. DeArmond. She sent a letter and she was under the
impression that her testimony was thrown into a pile. She was
interested in knowing how many letters have been received in favor
of the bill, and how many have opposed the bill.
MS. BUCKINGHAM was therefore encouraged to hear that the letters
are on file. She was not able to testify at the first meeting on
HB 246, and she feels this bill should be completely withdrawn. It
is not well-thought out, and it is poorly worded.
MS. BUCKINGHAM suggested a task force study the issue and come up
with solutions. Ms. Buckingham also said she does not know about
the hearings in Anchorage held by the Governor's Pioneers' Home
Task Force. She said she would be interested in knowing the
outcome of those hearings.
TAPE 95-42, SIDE B
Number 000
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said there was a Governor's Pioneers' Home
Task Force, and he did not have a copy of the resulting report.
However, she can be provided with any number of other reports on
the homes. In addition, Representative Davis noted that her
written testimony was in the bill packets of the HESS Committee
members.
ANNE JANZEN, resident, Sitka Pioneers' Home, was asked to read
Carol Klaney's testimony as Ms. Klaney is able to write, but she
cannot speak clearly. Ms. Janzen read, "As a ten-year resident of
the Sitka Pioneers' Home, I strongly oppose the sale of the
pioneers' home. The pioneers' homes are the best health care
facilities existing. The pioneers' homes are staffed with caring,
well-qualified personnel. The medical, dietary and CNA departments
take a personal interest in the welfare of the people they care
for--a concern that will be lost in a privately-owned facility.
"If the sale of the pioneers' homes becomes finalized, I am only
one of a number of pioneers' home residents who will be left
homeless by being unable to meet the increased costs of a
privately-owned care facility. For the above reasons, I protest
the proposed sale of the pioneers' homes. Thank you. Cordially,
Carol Klaney."
Number 160
JULIA OLSEN, resident, Sitka Pioneers' Home, testified via
teleconference that she will be 71 years old next month. She was
born and raised in Alaska. She was admitted to the Sitka Pioneers'
Home on a doctor's advice. If it was not for the home, she would
not be alive today. Thanks to the care of the administrator of the
home, she is improving. For people who have a low income level
such as her, things are getting pretty shaky. They want someone to
tell them everything is going to be okay. They want some
reassurance.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS hoped that some assurance has been provided as
to his intent for the bill. Residents of the homes should remain
comfortable at the homes as long as they wish.
Number 299
MARGARET NEWELL, Resident, Anchorage Pioneers' Home, testified via
teleconference that she is against HB 246. The author of the bill,
she decided, has done no research on this proposal. It is very
cruel to upset people that are no longer able to care for
themselves. When she came into the pioneers' home, she had to
dispose of most of her earthly possessions. Not much can be put
into a 168 square foot room and still have room to walk around.
MS. NEWELL said when she entered the home in 1987, she had to give
up a lot. Now a legislator is trying to disrupt her life and the
lives of other residents financially and emotionally. This is not
only cruel but it is extremely thoughtless. She reminded
Representative Davis of the Golden Rule, "Do unto others as you
would have them to unto you." And she added that "What goes
around, generally comes back around also." She asked HESS
Committee members to please kill the bill, and relieve the
residents of the pioneers' home.
Number 394
MARCY BUTLER testified via teleconference that the sons and
daughters of the pioneers' home residents wanted to see that their
parents would have appropriate medical help and facilities as they
aged and became ill. As one of the daughters of the pioneers, Ms.
Butler told HESS Committee members that her mother came to Alaska
in 1936. Her father came to Alaska in 1923.
MS. BUTLER strongly opposes HB 246 because it thwarts her intent as
a daughter of pioneers. She would like to speak for her mother who
has had a stroke and cannot speak. Ms. Butler said her parents
worked hard in Alaska and worked for statehood. She did not want
the homes to be sold to companies that worked for profit. Ms.
Butler mentioned the names of other pioneers who she knows. She
said the legislature aims to "Kick the people into the streets that
built the streets, and paid for the streets."
MS. BUTLER continued that she has been a public school teacher in
Anchorage for 28 years. Last fall, a young woman attended her
class for six days. She had a child and was cared for by the state
by Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC). That girl was
pregnant with another child, and she was assigned a visiting
teacher--also paid for by the state. That visiting teacher kept in
contact with Ms. Butler in order to get assignments.
MS. BUTLER subsequently found out in January that the pregnant
young woman had not completed any of her work, and her second baby
was well on its way at that time.
MS. BUTLER said the pioneers paid more than their debt to society,
and they earned the right to be taken care of by the people they
took care of.
Number 609
CO-CHAIR TOOHEY said she has lived in Alaska since 1955, and she
never did a thing in Alaska that she thought she was going to be
repaid for when she got to be 65. Getting to be 65 is the
responsibility of Co-Chair Toohey.
MS. BUTLER replied that whether one expects to be helped by the
state or not is a private matter. She only wanted to point out the
example of the student who has never and probably will never
contribute in the way that the pioneers have contributed to the
state. She reiterated that those pioneers have earned the right to
be taken care of by the people they took care of.
Number 675
INEZ WELLS, Resident, Anchorage Pioneers' Home, said she came to
Alaska in 1966 with the military. She worked for statehood, and
she has worked all of her life in Alaska. Now that she is not able
to take care of herself, she has moved to the pioneers' home, which
she likes very much. She is very disappointed that those who have
worked so hard might lose the homes. She requested that the bill
be killed.
Number 769
ROBERLY WALDRON, former deputy commissioner, Department of
Administration, testified via teleconference that the homes are
excellent providers of service. While there are many reasons why
the ownership and management of the homes must remain with the
state, she said she would talk about only a few. First, the homes
primarily admit those who cannot receive care at other facilities.
The private sector takes care of persons with high and low income
levels.
MS. WALDRON said therefore, if a person has adequate resources to
pay for care, or qualifies for Medicaid, a private facility will
admit that person. Where does one go if he/she does not meet
either of these tests? While the homes may have a few clients who
could be in private facilities, the vast majority could not. A
private facility does not want and cannot afford to admit those who
cannot pay for care from some source. Several times, the private
facility administrator in Representative Davis's district has
criticized the homes and has asked the state to put the residents
in private facilities and pay for their care.
MS. WALDRON said that is the same facility that over-bills because
the development involves political forces and increases the bed
number and certificate of need number from Health and Social
Services. She asked why the state would want to give away cost
control if the state is going to be liable for the care of those
individuals.
Number 862
MS. WALDRON said secondly, to qualify for Medicaid, a person must
have a diagnosis that relates to physical ailments, to the
exclusion of mental needs. Therefore, a person suffering from
dementia does not qualify for Medicaid. Even if that person met
the financial criteria, but had the diagnosis of Alzheimer's
disease which requires 24-hour attendance, the person would not
qualify for Medicaid. Most of the persons in the pioneers' homes
in the nursing care facility and in assisted living have a
diagnosis that includes dementia.
MS. WALDRON explained that those who have a dual physical and
mental illness and qualify financially are in private facilities
already. They enter the facility due to the long waiting list at
the pioneers' homes and they can receive services in the private
facility.
Number 918
MS. WALDRON continued with her third point. The state owns
hundreds of millions of dollars in property, buildings, and other
assets. Yet the state budget gives not one dime for maintenance in
Fiscal Year (FY) 1995. In the budget request for FY 96, the homes
asked for a barely sufficient capital budget to provide basic
maintenance for the building, with no requests for major work to be
done. One of the buildings is 61 years old, and almost any
breakdown is major and expensive. The amount of the request for FY
96 is $326,000. Divide that by six, and each home will only
receive $64,000. That is not enough.
MS. WALDRON asserted as a consequence of year after year of
inadequate capital funds, the buildings all need major work. A
survey completed three years ago showed the buildings need about
$98 million in work. That means that before a new owner can
convert the facilities to Medicare/Medicaid facilities, they would
have to spend that much, or more, in renovation and maintenance.
After the state has received their market value for the property,
who could afford the homes?
MS. WALDRON added that the state is in the process of phasing out
services at the Harborview facility in Valdez. It should be noted
that it currently has the Sourdough Unit, which houses older
Alaskans with dementia. There are other reasons why the state
should not sell the pioneers' homes, and Ms. Waldron said she was
sure HESS Committee members were going to hear many of those
reasons from others.
MS. WALDRON spoke about contracting. She said the homes currently
do contract for food services, and two of the homes include either
laundry or housekeeping. This saves money, and there may be other
services that may be contracted. Those options should be reviewed
often. The overall management of the homes should not be
contracted. A survey completed about a year ago shows that top
management in the pioneers' homes are the lowest paid of all long-
term care administrators.
MS. WALDRON said the homes have professional and good
administrators. She asked why the state would want to increase the
cost and lose the advantage of the experienced administrators.
Since they are required to be licensed as well, unless a contractor
would retain the present administrators, it is most likely that
persons outside of Alaska would be hired. There simply is not that
many licensed administrators who are available for work. Many are
already employed, and others, like Ms. Waldron, are retired.
Number 1063
MS. WALDRON said even though she strongly disagrees with selling or
contracting management of the homes, she believes there are many
things the state can do to make the homes more viable. She said,
"The current residents of the homes don't like to hear this, but
everything must be done to help keep the homes viable so the state
can continue to own and operate them." This would include
continuing to increase the rates paid by the residents.
MS. WALDRON conceded that there has been an increase for the last
three years, but the rates are still extremely low. The rate paid
for those in assisted living and residential care would not pay for
one month's rent, utilities, groceries, gas and incidentals if that
person lived in their own apartment.
Number 1107
MS. WALDRON felt many resident can pay more, while it is recognized
that some cannot. All residents in the homes are currently being
subsidized, and it should add to the dignity of those residents to
pay more, rather than less, when funds are available.
MS. WALDRON asked that residents not resist reasonable rate
increases for the benefit of the homes, so people don't have to
defend why the homes should continue to exist. Secondly, Ms.
Waldron asked that the employees become more patient with the
offerings of the homes. Assisted living is not only better for the
residents, it is less costly to them and the state. It is an
advantage to the employees as well.
MS. WALDRON said employees should visit other facilities or talk to
those who have gone to work for other facilities. Ms. Waldron
guaranteed that legislators will see that the homes give the most
excellent care at the appropriate levels, and that the homes are
adequately staffed.
Number 1169
MS. WALDRON requested that the Administration continue, as it has
done in the past, to make changes that are necessary, to look for
efficiencies, and to serve clients with the love and compassion
they deserve. If those three requested things happen, this issue
of selling the homes would not be brought up again for a long, long
time.
MS. WALDRON concluded by asking the legislators to look to the
Governor's Advisory Board on Pioneers' Homes and to the Alaska
Commission on Aging for guidance on issues relating to pioneers'
homes. She knows legislators will find that those entities are
reasonable and willing to contribute. While those organizations
are supportive of the homes, they are also supportive of home and
community-based services.
MS. WALDRON stated the commission has been charged by the
legislature to address the mental health needs of the aging
population. This group should be allowed to plan their services as
charged by the legislature. There is already two committees in
place: The Governor's Advisory Board for Pioneers' Homes, and the
Alaska Commission on Aging.
MS. WALDRON said she would provide her written testimony to HESS
Committee members, along with a history on pioneers' homes.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS thanked Ms. Waldron, and stated he was certain
she will be a valuable asset when considering what to do with the
homes.
Number 1239
CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked if the year-long task force that was set up
by the Governor last year has completed/distributed a report.
MS. WALDRON said the person who may be contacted for a copy of that
report is with the Attorney General's Office. She also commented
that earlier, there was talk about continuing to take care of the
current residents. She has been the one who, over the last three
years, has had to approach current residents and tell them that
their rates are being raised again. She knows how that disturbs
the residents, but she also knows that it is necessary for many
reasons.
MS. WALDRON recalled that at one time, there was talk about raising
the rates quite a bit. Ms. Waldron went to the Attorney General's
office and asked if there was any way current residents could be
protected, and have incoming or new residents treated differently.
That would include "grandfathering" people in at lesser rates, and
have new residents pay higher rates. She was told that could not
happen, and that Medicaid would not allow that to happen. Equal
services must be offered for equal pay.
MS. WALDRON explained the only time individuals could utilize the
grandfather clause is if a program is being phased out, such as the
longevity bonus. However, pioneers' homes are not being phased out
in the same way. Therefore, at that time she was told there is no
way to protect those currently in the homes.
Number 1350
EUGENE SMITH testified via teleconference that he has been a
resident of Anchorage since 1932. His wife was born in Anchorage
and they have many children and grandchildren. He and his wife are
not residents of the pioneers' home, but they have sent an
application in for residency for close to two years. Mr. Smith is
now rather disappointed in the bill.
MR. SMITH is now wondering about the future of the current
residents, and he is also wondering about those who are on the
waiting lists. He asked if it was worthwhile for he and his wife
to continue to pursue residency in the pioneers' homes. They have
figured they can afford the $1,800 per month that it would cost
them to be in the pioneers' home together. But now he wonders
whether they will be able to afford it.
MR. SMITH said if the state decides to sell the homes, there is no
one in the world that can run the homes as the state has done in
the past. Profit motive alone would drive people out if they could
not come up with the money. Mr. Smith said he was only expressing
his own dissatisfaction with the bill, and also he wonders about
his and his wife's future.
Number 1472
CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked if Mr. Smith has looked into moving into a
small unit and getting someone to care for them should they become
incapacitated. She asked if that would not be cheaper and more
fun. As time goes on, Co-Chair Toohey suspects that the pioneers'
homes will become more of assisted living facilities, or longer-
term care homes for people who are incapable of caring for
themselves. She asked if Mr. Smith and his wife had looked into
the Chugach center or senior citizen housing other than the
pioneers' homes.
MR. SMITH answered that they had not.
Number 1526
CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked Representative Rokeberg if his mother was in
the pioneers' home, and he answered that she was. She asked if she
had two homes, her own home and the pioneers' home residence.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG answered that she had sold her house.
CO-CHAIR TOOHEY said the issue of people having their own homes and
living at the pioneers' homes during the week needs to be
addressed.
KATHY DIETRICH, Business Agent, Alaska State Employees Association,
said privatization seldom achieves the benefits sought. She said
she is employed at the pioneers' home and enjoys her job, as does
her co-workers. She said one does not work in the pioneers' homes
unless one really cares about serving the pioneers. For a private
entity to make a profit, the owner will either have to cut services
or reduce wages and benefits of the hard-working Alaskans who right
now are working at the homes. Those workers want to continue
serving the residents.
MS. DIETRICH said any owner would most likely come from the Lower
48, and they would send the profits outside if a profit was made.
If legislators asked administrators, they would be told there is
very little room for profits in running the pioneers' homes.
MS. DIETRICH continued that privatization also removes an important
level of scrutiny for the state of Alaska by placing the employees
serving the residents under the review of profit-motivated
employers instead of a responsible administrator who is mindful of
the budget and providing quality services. Pioneers' home
employees are very afraid they would see cuts to the services.
MS. DIETRICH said if legislators were to visit the Fairbanks
Pioneers' Home, they would immediately see how warm and friendly it
is. Some of those amenities would probably fall by the wayside
when a profit was being attempted.
MS. DIETRICH asked to address the earlier comment that the majority
of Alaskans do not support an income tax. Ms. Dietrich was unsure
that it was known what the majority would support as far as an
income tax. However, she does feel that, as leaders, it is the
responsibility of legislators to educate the public as to the need
for taxes, and what Alaskans are giving up if they continue to go
without an income tax.
MS. DIETRICH said the working people she knows would be more than
happy to do their fair share to continue state services.
Number 1676
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS closed the hearing to public testimony. He
asked for comments from the committee.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE noted the frustration and concerns of the seniors
who are currently residents of the pioneers' homes, and those who
would like to be residents. However, those people may not get in
because of the long waiting lists, and the constraints the state
had to operate under when the court said that anyone who has been
an Alaska resident for a year is now eligible for pioneers' home
care.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE wished the courts had made a different decision. He
also spoke regarding the tax issue. He said the vast majority of
people in his particular district are not willing to pay taxes to
subsidize a lot of state services, including the pioneers' homes.
Until and unless they are willing to do that, the subsidy will not
be seen. Perhaps, rather than privatizing the homes, a nonprofit
entity could be established so the homes operated in a break-even
basis.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE said in order to reduce the impact on other state
services, the residency of the pioneers' homes would have to be on
a needs basis, and the contribution would have to be a sliding
scale depending on circumstances. If a person was wealthy and
wanted to live in a pioneers' home, that person would have to pay
more.
Number 1780
CO-CHAIR BUNDE continued that what to do with the pioneers' homes
is just one of the many problems facing the legislature this year.
This is a difficult issue, and Co-Chair Bunde thanked those who
provided alternative solutions to help meet the challenges.
CO-CHAIR BUNDE reassumed the gavel, and appointed a subcommittee to
study this issue. He appointed Representative Davis as chair of
the subcommittee, and Representative Rokeberg and Representative
Robinson were asked to be members. Any other members of the
legislature with an interest were invited to be involved.
Number 1828
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG told the residents of the pioneers' homes
that there are a number of legislators on the HESS Committee and
throughout the entire legislature who are very sensitive to the
needs of the pioneers' homes. In addition, Representative Rokeberg
wanted to note for the record that his mother is a member of the
Anchorage Pioneers' Home, he is a long-time member of the Pioneers
of Alaska Igloo Number 15, and he is a member of the AARP.
Therefore, people are represented in Juneau.
ADJOURNMENT
Number 1869
CO-CHAIR BUNDE adjourned the meeting at 9:58 a.m.
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